FCPX > X2Pro > Pro Tools = What happened?!

Hi Cris,

Sorry for the late reply, I have been out of the office recently.

1. No, I don't think that is likely because X2Pro should never be performing a sample rate conversion. Would you be able to upload a very short AAF that exhibits this behaviour so that I can inspect it here? I can gave you FTP details you you need them.


2. We are struggling to reproduce this issue, but we are still working on it.


3. There are audio cross fades in FCP X; when you use a transition, it often also includes an audio cross fade. See the attached "Screenshot 1.png" and notice how the audio is faded, but the fade handle is not used. It's not simple to change fade handles to cross fades for a couple of reasons:
   1. It is not possible to overlap cross fades in an AAF. If the fade handles overlaps with a cross fade what should happen then? Should the original cross fade be dropped? How would the user choose this?
   2. Fade handles are very flexible, but cross fades have certain constraints that don't apply to fade handles. For example cross fades require both clips to have a handle that is at least the half the duration of the cross fade. This is not required with fade handles. See "Screenshot 2.png" for an example of fade handles that could not be converted to a cross fade
4. This is a result of FCP X giving clip positions/duration as fractions in the FPCMLX, and the AAF requiring decimals. When converting the fractions in the FCPXML to decimals in the AAF, it does so with an accuracy of 1ms. This can cause 1ms gaps to appear between clips. 1/1000th of a second of silence should not be audable.

Graeme is away for a week and will be in touch when he gets back, if there is anything urgent that we can help with please post again but the information has been passed on for analysis.

Any word Graeme?

Sorry for the late response - been slammed recently with getting this film across the finishing line. New info & new issues below:

1. Double checked with my mixer and he has left the "Apply SRC" option unchecked. What I think may be happening is that even though my FCPX project is set to 48khz, I might have been using several 96khz SFX that I imported into the project. Instead of converting these down to 48khz, FCPX may just keep them at their native resolution. Then when AAFs are created, FCPX might be telling X2Pro to preserve the highest audio resolution possible, thus creating 96khz AAF's. Do you think this is possible? Thats our current guess for now.

2. Regarding X2Pro not being able to carry over any clip properties for Multicam clips (audio sub channel custom naming ie. actors names on certain LAV tracks, all audio keyframing and custom role names) ... Please let me know if you have an update on this...

3. Hmm, I think you've understood the request correctly - however, it's important to understand that in FCPX, there aren't really any audio crossfades -- only audio fade handles. See here for a perfect example: www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YQWSvB0cc3E#t=26

SO! To restate my request a bit more clearly: I would like X2Pro to have an option that allows for the AAF's that are created to translate any and all FCPX audio fade handles INTO crossfades in Pro Tools, while also preserving the shape of the fade. Additionally, any automation gains made in FCPX should be translated over to Pro Tools as well - no matter where they are. What I'd like to completely avoid is having X2Pro transform any FCPX fade handles into AVID automation gains. This would alleviate many issues we've experienced.

4. As my mixer has gotten more in depth with the AAF's I provided to him - we've come across a new issue I'd like to bring to your attention. According to him, he's finding countless tiny little gaps throughout the film (all the exact same width - 48 samples - exactly 1 millisecond) in all the dialogue tracks (the multicam clip embedded audio) every single time there is an angle change. Apparently, it's not limited to multicam clips either - as my mixer has found the gaps in isolated SFX & music clips as well. I've attached 3 screenshots - the first 2 are from the mixer showing me the gaps - the third is a screenshot from FCPX on my side of things showing there is no gap. We've checked about 10 spots in the film randomly and there is never a gap for me in FCPX -- only for him in Pro Tools. He's able to repair every gap by extending the head or tail of the related clips -- but the gaps are so small they are are to see without being zoomed in extremely close. This has made spotting and fixing them (on his end) extremely difficult and time consuming. Any idea at all what could be causing this? My previous post with the attached XML would still be relevant to this question.

1. X2Pro doesn't do any sample rate conversion. There is a setting that must be left unchecked when importing the AAF to Pro Tools which I have highlighted in the attached picture. Can your mixer please check that they are not accidentally telling Pro Tools to perform a sample rate conversion, by having this option checked, when importing the audio from the AAF?
2. I'm still investigating this one. I'll update this thread when I have something to report...
3. I can pass your comments on to the product manager, but I'm would like to be 100% clear on what you are suggesting first. I think you are saying that you would like the option to discard all cross fades and apply fade handles as cross fades in Pro Tools, preserving the shape of the fade if possible. Can you confirm that I have understood, or correct me if I am wrong?

Okay, met with my mixer - we compared what I had in FCPX to what was coming up in Pro Tools - side by side. We also compared what was contained in the FCPXML and what seemed to get lost in the X2Pro conversion. Here are our findings:

1. My FCPX Timeline and output are 48khz. The FCPXML supports this. After translation through X2Pro however (with settings listed in OP) -- all AAF's open in Pro Tools as 96khz. Mixer then has to downsample back to 48khz before proceeding.

2. FCPX regular clip properties seem to translate through X2Pro successfully (this includes audio sub channel custom naming ie. actors names on certain LAV tracks, all audio keyframing and custom role names). However, all FCPX multicam clips FAIL to carry over any of the above mentioned details (except for FCPX role names) even though all the information is present in the FCPXML. To reiterate, all custom sub-channel naming and audio keframing is lost in the AAF creation process.

Here is a sample from the FCPXML (attached) that shows the custom naming is present:

<audio-source name="MIX" srcCh="1" outCh="L" enabled="0"/>
<audio-source name="PETER 2" srcCh="2" outCh="R" enabled="0"/>
<audio-source name="MITCH" srcCh="3" outCh="C"/>
<audio-source name="ELSA" srcCh="4" outCh="LFE"/>
<audio-source name="AMBER" srcCh="5" outCh="Ls"/>
<audio-source name="PETER" srcCh="6" outCh="Rs"/>
<audio-source name="BRUCE" srcCh="7" outCh="X"/>

On regular clips, these custom names appear in Pro Tools. On multicam clips (which is unfortunately about 85% of my film) these do not show up - and are replaced with the RAW quicktime dailies name (ie. 0878A_T03).

Here is a sample from the FCPXML that shows the audio keyframing is present:

</adjust-volume>
</audio-source>
<audio-source name="PETER" srcCh="6" outCh="Rs">
<adjust-volume>
<param name="amount" keyValues="-96dB; -4dB; -4dB; -3dB; -3dB; -6dB; -6dB; -96dB; -96dB; -7dB; -7dB; -96dB" keyTimes="163809480/720000s; 164016676/720000s; 164775373/720000s; 164982570/720000s; 165548800/720000s; 165688658/720000s; 166781197/720000s; 166853716/720000s; 192531745/720000s; 192650883/720000s; 193594681/720000s; 193760439/720000s"/>
</adjust-volume>
</audio-source>
<audio-source name="BRUCE" srcCh="7" outCh="X">
<adjust-volume>
<param name="amount" keyValues="-96dB; 2dB; 2dB; -96dB; -96dB; 4dB; 4dB; -96dB; -96dB; 0dB; 0dB; -96dB; -96dB; 5dB; 5dB; -96dB; -96dB; -96dB; -96dB; -96dB" keyTimes="157981945/720000s; 158044104/720000s; 158254154/720000s; 158337033/720000s; 180661467/720000s; 180790965/720000s; 181240283/720000s; 181349061/720000s; 183493488/720000s; 183571187/720000s; 184022063/720000s; 184104942/720000s; 191555511/720000s; 191733794/720000s; 194077486/720000s; 194251236/720000s; 194671538/720000s; 194775137/720000s; 195217292/720000s; 195885016/720000s"/>

Same situation as above - remains in regular clips, gone if multicam clip :(

3. Regarding how X2pro handles fades: You mentioned that this is because "FCPX can have a fade handle and a cross fade effect applied on the same point of a clip and the only way to get the same effect in Pro Tools is to use automation gain". My suggestion is that this feature be reversed - and that automation gains be abandoned in favor of simply bringing over fades. At the very least, this should be an option in X2Pro's preference settings. Here's why: An editor, nine times out of ten, will simply use a fade handle instead of a fade handle in combination with audio keyframing. The latter is a rarity only needed in special situations (in my feature for example, I only did this a handful of times - but the amount of fade handles I used was countless).

Also, by X2Pro converting all custom fades into linear automation gains -- all of an Editor's intricate audio design choices are completely lost by the time they reach the mixer. There are tons of times when a linear fade will not suffice and a C or S shaped fade are necessary. By allowing X2pro to passthrough audio fades, the amount of work needed by the mixer is significantly reduced and the integrity of the original sound design is maintained.

4. I was incorrect about the muting and unmuting issue - there did not seem to be any issues with this at all.

5. The log issue has already been addressed in my last post. Thank you for pushing that forward as a feature request ;)

Aaaand that is all. I've attached my Reel 1 FCPXML if you are interested in taking a look at it.

Thanks for taking the time to look into all of this Graeme. I look forward to your response and further input / advice!

I have passed on your feature request to the product manager and will await more information after you have met with your mixer.

Hey Graeme,

Thanks for the response. Since I'm the one with FCPX and my mixer is the one with Pro Tools, its impossible for either of us to troubleshoot on our own. As such, I've made plans to sit down with my mixer so we can go through your list of shared detail requests and conduct some general troubleshooting ourselves.

In the meantime, I would very much like to put in a feature request to have all logged warnings be accompanied with 2 organization options - Timecode and Type of Effect (audio / visual / mutal all divided and still organized by timecode)

For that second option "Type of Effect", heres an example of what it might look like:

VISUAL EFFECTS
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Gaussian] at 00:03:17.94 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Magic Bullet Movie Looks] at 00:016:07.08 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Vignette] at 00:22:36.66 has been ignored.

AUDIO EFFECTS
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Compressor] at 00:12:31.94 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Tremolo] at 00:15:15.15 has been ignored.
• Panning adjustment is not supported. The pan adjustment at 00:18:53.47 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Compressor] at 00:22:15.55 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Compressor] at 00:22:49.38 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Bass Enhancer] at 36:04:07.08 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Compressor] at 00:39:19.91 has been ignored.
• Filters are not supported. The filter [Walkie Talkie] at 00:41:36.66 has been ignored.

MUTUAL EFFECTS
• Retiming is not supported. The retiming at 00:2:13.83 has been ignored.
• Retiming is not supported. The retiming at 00:7:36.56 has been ignored.

The reason why this second option would be profoundly helpful is because then the log could be given to both a colorist and a sound mixer and it would have all the pertinent information needed - but correctly parsed and organized so they can focus on just the list that's important to them -- rather than going through one big huge list and trying to weed out one element they're looking for.

I'll report back when I've got some more details regarding the specifics of my project.

Hello Valfrost,

Sorry that you are not happy with what X2Pro has produced. Perhaps I can help explain some of what you are seeing;

Multicam clips should not be a problem for X2Pro. It will just place the active audio angle on the time line in the AAF.

The warnings about the effects that were discarded are logged in the order that they are encountered by X2Pro when it processes the FCPXML. If you would like the logged warnings to be arranged in a different order (e.g. by time code,) I could add that as a feature request.

X2Pro does not perform sample rate conversion. The change in sample rate that your sound mixer is seeing is likely to be related to their import settings in Pro Tools. If you need more information on what settings can produce this, I may be able to make some screen grabs.

Some fade in/out effects will be converted to cross fades in the AAF, but X2Pro does not convert most effects and will instead log them as they are discarded. It does this because there are a different selection of effects available in FCP X to the library in Pro Tools (or any other program that might open the AAF), so there is no way to map effects in one program to another. You could render the effects in FCP X and replace the original clips in your sequence, but that would then mean that the original audio isn't available in Pro Tools, which is exactly what X2Pro is trying to avoid.

I'm not sure about the audio key framing being present in some areas, and not in others. Perhaps you could attach an FCPXML and tell me which key frame in FCP X is missing when it is converted using X2Pro. One thought I have on this is that if you change the gain on a whole clip, it will be applied as clip gain in Pro Tools, but if there is a key frame on that clip, it will instead be applied as automation gain.

When you create a fade in FCP X using the fade handles, the fade will be present in Pro tools as automation gain. One reason for this is because in FCP X you can have a fade handle and a cross fade effect applied on the same point of a clip and the only way to get the same effect in Pro Tools is to use automation gain. An S or C shape using automation gain would require a large amount of key frames, so X2Pro converts all fade handles to linear fades so the audio mixer can finish it properly.

I don't know why some clips should be muted/unmuted incorrectly. Perhaps you could attach an FCPXML and tell me what clip is muted/unmuted when it shouldn't be.

TL:DR - I don't think you did anything wrong. You are given a set of tools for building a sequence in FCP X which don't translate exactly to the features available in Pro Tools (magnetic timeline, fade handles, multicam angles, etc). X2Pro does convert most of your FCP X project to an AAF that Pro Tools can work with, but inevitably some features must be changed or discarded, meaning that some minor things may need to be tweaked in Pro Tools.

If there you can attach an FCPXML and tell us exactly where to look (clip name, time code, etc) for something that is different when the AAF is opened in Pro Tools, we can take a look and see there is a misunderstanding of what X2Pro has done, or if you have found a bug.

I just finished a feature (editing & sound design) that is heading to final mix. I should note that about 85% of the this movie is made up of multicam clips. Anyway, the mix-house requested OMF's for all 4 reels. I opened FCPX (10.0.9), exported XMLs for each reel, opened X2Pro Professional (2.2) and proceeded to export AAF files and deliver with these settings:

Trim Embedded Audio = ON
Discard disabled clips = ON
Keep sub-roles separate = ON
Reference multi-channel WAVE Files = OFF
Reference WAVE files in place = OFF
Discard transitions = OFF
Time Handles = 20 seconds
Handling media that can't be reference = embed the media, optionally trimming
Convert non-PCM audio to = 16 bit

Upon completion of every AAF, I received an incredibly long log file of every visual and audio effect that would not carry over (ie. compressor, muffled, cathedral, magic bullet movie looks, retimes, gaussian, tremolo, walkie-talkie etc). I copied all the logs which I included in my delivery - so they'd know what didn't carry over. (btw, side tangent: what order are these logs in? I can't, for the life of me, discern any pattern to them - they are completely out of order...)

Shorty after delivering, the mixer called me to let me know his Pro Tools timeline was a pretty big mess and that essentially, the entire movie had come over raw and in the wrong sample rate (was 48000khz, got upscaled to 96000khz strangely). Additionally, almost all of my audio design was gone. Nearly every effect missing, audio key framing randomly present in some areas and not in others, all audio fades (S and C curves) replaced by (/ direct line) fades that were also hard "baked" into the audio channels themselves. Incorrect actors LAVs unmuted and vice versa. In short, the transfer didn't carry over any of my work - and is now forcing the mixer to start from scratch and trying to copy my previous work as closely as possible.

This was my first time ever using X2Pro so my question is this: Did I do something wrong? Was there a step I missed? Is there a setting I had wrong? Is this even the most efficient and correct workflow for what I'm trying to accomplish?

TL:DR - I used X2Pro to deliver a films audio to a post mix-house. The transfer lost virtually every bit of sound design I worked so hard to create and now the mixer has to potentially re-do everything from scratch. What did I do wrong and how can I fix this?

Thanks in advance everyone!