Sony XAVC

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4 years 7 months ago #1980 by DLyon44
DLyon44 replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Thanks for the workaround but what happens if you already imported the A7s mp4s into Final Cut. Unfortunately, FCPX won't let you re-link to the .mov or .mv4.

Thanks!!

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4 years 11 months ago #1710 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: [TS4934] Sony XAVC
Thank you Graeme. Much appreciated and a much better work around.

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4 years 11 months ago #1709 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: [TS4934] Sony XAVC
In my previous post I mentioned that rewrapping the clip to a MOV file was a way of working around this issue, but I have since found out that changing the file extension from MP4 to M4V was enough to allow X2Pro and QuickTime Player 7 to handle the clip. MP4 and M4V files are basically the same, but apparently the Quicktime Framework can cope with PCM audio (and a few other things) in a file with an M4V extension.

This means that to work around this issue, you don't need to use any software to rewrap your files, you can just rename them (e.g. rename "C0013.MP4" to "C0013.M4V") before using them in FCP X.

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5 years 1 week ago - 4 years 11 months ago #1573 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: [TS4934] Sony XAVC
We are looking into this, but unfortunately it's especially easy; X2Pro uses Apple's QuickTime framework to extract audio from the clips (with the exception of RED clips, where is uses the RED SDK) and it's this framework that is erroring. Other apps that use the QuickTime framework like QuickTime 7 and FCP 7 are also unable to open the files for the same reason. In order to support PCM audio in MP4 files we would probably have to use some other way of extracting the audio which would be a big change to how X2Pro works.

I understand that it's a popular codec and a popular camera, but it is unusual in MP4 files. My reading of the MP4 specification suggests that it may not be officially supported in an MP4 container. I may have misunderstood the spec, but I think this because in http://www.mp4ra.org/codecs.html "lpcm" is listed under "Sample Entry Codes Registered for QuickTime" but not under "Sample Entry Codes Registered to ISO".

The only workaround that I have found so far is to convert the MP4's to MOVs (a completely lossless operation) before use because the QuickTime framework can then understand the clip.

The developers are investigating and will hopefully have more info soon.
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Graeme Robinson.

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5 years 1 week ago - 4 years 11 months ago #1569 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: [TS4934] Sony XAVC
Thank you for the quick answer. Any way to update X2Pro code to recognize PCM audio in the MP4? This is a pretty popular codec, especially with the A7S recording to this format and it works smoothly in FCPX, so hoping to avoid the extra step with every camera on every shoot. Much appreciated.
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Graeme Robinson.

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5 years 2 weeks ago - 4 years 11 months ago #1563 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: [TS4934] Sony XAVC
Thanks for that info Eli. Please do let us know if you have the same issue with the Sony F cameras.

I don't think the issue is with the video codec specifically, but rather that the MP4 file contains PCM audio which is unusual because normally MP4 files only ever contain compressed audio. Rewrapping the audio/video into a MOV file works because PCM audio is fine in a MOV.

This has been assigned ticket number 4934 in our internal system. I'll keep you updated with any news on that ticket.
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Graeme Robinson.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1562 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Hi Graeme. The file is the camera original from the Sony A7S. The Sony XAVC-Scodec is written as an mp4 QT file. I didn't change the file at all before uploading. I get the same problem with the Sony RX10, which records the same format. I'm not in a desperate situation at the moment, but would definitely like a solution soon since it's my go to camera for low light situations. Also, I am now all FCPX, so going back to FCP7 wouldn't work for me at this point. Feel free to contact Apple and Sony and let me know if you need me to get involved. I can also reach out to my Sony contacts and see if they have any possible info. Looking forward to what you find out. Thanks.

Please note that XAVC-S is the 8 bit variant of XAVC, found in the Sony F5 and F55 and soon to be released FS7. Not sure if footage from these cameras is causing the same issue, but I will have an FS7 very soon and will test and let you know.

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5 years 2 weeks ago - 5 years 2 weeks ago #1561 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Sony XAVC
If you are desperate for a workaround, I have found a way of unwrapping the mp4 files and wrapping them in a mov wrapper (rewrapping not transcoding, so no loss of quality). This enables FCP 7, QuickTime Player 7 and, most importantly, X2Pro to be able to work with the file, but it requires use of a (free) third party tool and typing some commands into the terminal. You would also have to replace the mp4 clips with the mov clips in your project. Let me know if that would be of interest to you?

Is it okay for us to pass the file to Apple for their input? If we can figure out what is causing the problem it might be a good idea for us to contact the makers of the device that created the file, so that information would be very useful.
Last Edit: 5 years 2 weeks ago by Graeme Robinson.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1560 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Got your file, thanks, and I'm able to reproduce that error message.

There is something strange about that file; It plays fine in QuickTime X and FCP X, but neither FCP 7 or QuickTime 7 can open the file.

Can you explain how that file was created?

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1559 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Thanks, you can now attach tiff files and MP4 file if you need to in the future, but they can't be over 10MB so I have emailed you with FTP details.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1558 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Just fully read the file format listing. the video is mp4, so the upload is not supported. Let me know where to send. Thanks.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1557 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Trying video again. Error message originally sent as a tif which I see isn't supported, so may have caUSED UPLOAD ISSUE. HOPEFULLY THIS WORKS.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1556 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: Sony XAVC
I attached all three and saw icons for each when finished. I'm attaching the error message again. The clip is over 300 MB and might have been the cause of the upload issue. Let me know where to post the clip. Thanks.
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5 years 2 weeks ago #1555 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Sony XAVC
You have only attached your FCPXML, did you try to attach the clip and error message to this post? If these files are rejected from the post (e.g. to large) I can provide FTP details so that you can upload them there if you would like?

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5 years 2 weeks ago #1553 by ekabillio
ekabillio replied the topic: Sony XAVC
Thanks for the quick response. I've uploaded the error message generated by X2Pro, as well as the FCPX XML file and the smallest original file I have from the Sony A7S from the most recent project. The XML is from a timeline/project with only one audio Clip, from footage shot on the Sony A7S. I separated the audio track from the video to confirm that it was only the audio causing the issue. Let me know if you need an actual video file from the camera. This is part of a huge clip. I can shoot and upload whatever you need. This project is at 1080p 29.97. Audio at 48k. I usually work in 1080p 23.98 projects and have the same issues regardless. It affects all footage shot with the new Sony XAVC codec that I have edited. The full project incorporated footage from the following 12 cameras with only the Sony audio creating a problem. This has happened once before and I was unable to create a work around, since the audio was recorded directly to the Sony A7S via the Sony XLR-K1M audio adapter.. Camera list below:

2 - Canon C300 - MXF XDCam 422 50Mbps
2 - Panasonic GH4 - h264 .mov 4k files at 100Mbps with audio at 48k
6 - Panasonic robotic studio cameras recording ApplePRoRes 422 to AJA-KiPros with Audio at 48k
1 Sony RX10 recording XAVC-s as mp4 file at 50Mbps 48k PCM audio
1 Sony A&S recording XAVC-s as mp4 file at 50Mbps 48k PCM audio
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