Echo delay + missing audio

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6 years 6 months ago #1504 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Before you edited your post, you asked if you had done anything "wrong" in your workflow... I don't think you have done anything wrong. The issue is with the RED clip and the RED SDK that we use in X2Pro, rather than anything to do with your project.

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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #1503 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Hi, I'm very glad we're making progress.

* Copied for ticket 4897. Curious about the fix.

* Ticket 4876: OK, I understand. It's strange because I remember shooting 24p, but indeed all material is 23.98. Thanks for looking for a fix, and I confirm that the workaround you gave me is working.

Thank you, Graeme!
Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by manoucho.

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6 years 6 months ago #1502 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Thanks, I can see missing clips when I convert that FCPXML. I have created a ticket (number 4897) on our system for that, and I'll let you know when it gets any updates.



Regarding your error from the RED clip (ticket 4876):

The clip appears to have been recorded at 24 fps, then marked as 23.98 fps. This causes the video to play slower than it was recorded (99.9% speed), but the audio will plays at the correct speed. Because the video is playing slower, it is longer in duration, which means that the duration of the video is longer than the duration of the audio (the audio will also go out of sync, but that probably not noticeable on your short clip). When X2Pro asks the RED SDK for the audio at the very end of the clip, it's not able to get it which is what causes the problem.

We are going to contact RED about this and see what they think we should do in this situation, but until we have a fix, you can work around it by disabling the audio from that clip (as it's mostly silent anyway) or trimming the audio back from the end of the clip by a short amount. About 225ms should be enough.

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6 years 6 months ago #1501 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Great thanks!

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6 years 6 months ago #1500 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
No problem.

I'll take a look at that FCPXML now.

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6 years 6 months ago #1499 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Hi Graeme

OK I really apologize for this I was under the incorrect assumption that Logic Pro X would open the AAF as well as Pro Tools.

Yes you're right. I did not mention this problem again because the designer manually replaced the missing audio. If I am not wrong, the missing audio was from a compound clip ("1ere partie etage"). And I think the problem goes away by detaching the audio from the compound clip.

I am attaching an older XML where the problem was present. Unfortunately I cannot check it myself as I don't have Pro Tools.
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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #1498 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Well that is interesting; I was always opening the AAFs created by X2Pro in Pro Tools because that is the supported workflow, but now you have mentioned Logic Pro X, I think I can see what you are describing.

First I opened your AAF in Pro Tools and everything looked/sounded fine, but then I opened the exact same AAF in Logic X and I can see/hear the sync issue (track 1 is not in sync with tracks 2 & 3).

In our experience, Pro Tools seems to have better support for AAF imports that Logic X, so to us this looks like there is nothing wrong with the AAF, and the problem lies in Logic X's AAF import.



I don't think you have mentioned a missing track in Pro Tools before, would you like me to investigate that? If so, can you provide some more details?

UPDATE: I just saw that you mentioned it in your first post, but we haven't been discussing that issue in our messages so far...
Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by Graeme Robinson.

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6 years 6 months ago #1497 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Done, the file is called AAF Test Emmanuel.aaf

Graeme I'm close to a facepalm here. Because I'm importing those AAFs with Logic Pro X, not Pro Tools (which I don't have). I haven't talked to the designer since the first import where he was missing tracks on his Pro Tools.

Let me know if the AAF you have is working well for you.

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6 years 6 months ago #1495 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio

manoucho wrote: In that timeline you will see a transition between the first two clips. However, BELOW that transition, there is 1 or 2 frames of a compound clip. It's quite simple:

* remove the transition, X2Pro runs perfectly.
* keep the transition, the bug appears.

I can see the compound clip you are talking about but I can't hear any echo/delay when I convert the project and open it in Pro Tools. Perhaps you could upload the AAF with the echo/delay?

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6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #1490 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
OKaye I'm uploading more files (in the folder Emmanuel_X2Pro extra part) which makes that now you have everything to read the full project (combining the 3 uploads I've done). The XML is attached here.

When you export to X2Pro, just chose "discard disabled clips" and export only the role Dialogues.

I have to do this because I've removed the little part of the compound clip that was causing an issue in the reduced project, but new problems started to appear and it's just way too complex to understand for me. I have already wasted days on this and I need to find a way to send a good AAF to my audio designer asap, I'll miss my festival deadline. I'm sure that having the whole project you will understand much better what the problem is.

Looking forward to your answer,
Emmanuel

-- UPDATE: upload finished.
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Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by manoucho. Reason: Update

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6 years 6 months ago #1484 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Hi Grame

Just wanted to check with you if you could download the files without problem. Thanks!

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6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #1477 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
Graeme

It has taken me 4 hours but I've got something interesting for you. I'm uploading a .zip containing an XML and the missing files, it will be there within 1h (The file is called Emmanuel X2Pro.zip)

In that timeline you will see a transition between the first two clips. However, BELOW that transition, there is 1 or 2 frames of a compound clip. It's quite simple:

* remove the transition, X2Pro runs perfectly.
* keep the transition, the bug appears.

Please note that this compound clip has a j-cut, and that the audio actually starts after the end of the clip in the timeline. It might be the cause of all this mess.

Of course it's just an example because I have more issues in the full project, but I believe they might be similar (a compound clip with a j-cut).

Good luck and thanks for the help.
Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by manoucho.

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6 years 7 months ago #1476 by manoucho
manoucho replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio

Graeme Robinson wrote: The issue with the RED clip has been logged on system as ticket number 4876


Good to hear! We're making progress :)

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6 years 7 months ago #1474 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio
The issue with the RED clip has been logged on system as ticket number 4876

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6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #1472 by Graeme Robinson
Graeme Robinson replied the topic: Echo delay + missing audio

manoucho wrote: 1. OK, what if I simply trim the project to the problematic clip ?

That would be great, as long as the problem still occurs after you have trimmed it.


manoucho wrote: 2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's precisely the clip you have. Can you check ?

You are right, sorry. I have reproduced that exact error message on my system here and will start investigating. The audio on that clip is just pops and clicks, so you might be able to work around that error by disabling those audio tracks in FCP X and choosing to "discard disabled clips" in the preferences.
Last Edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Graeme Robinson.

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